33: Thom Singer

Chris Suarez: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Welcome back to the experience growth podcast, where our collective mission is to build experiential businesses while more importantly, living big experiential lives. Now we do that ultimately by learning leaders are learners and whether we're leading ourselves or families, small businesses are massive companies being on the forefront of leading a movement of building experiential lives is our goal.

I am your host today. Chris Suarez and today's guest was actually a surprising one for me. I got introduced to Tony. Singer who you will be introduced to in just a moment. As a speaker as a writer he runs and hosts actually three different podcasts. One specifically that we'll dive into later in the show.

But I had listened to his Ted talk about the art of giving small and my goal when we started. Our conversation was really to sit there and have a conversation about wealth building and how wealth building can lead to giving he has started or coined this concept of compounded generosity.

So be ready to listen to his story about what led to this concept of compounding generosity, how that little giving can make massive impact on money people's worlds, but then the conversation continues. And we talk about human connection, which is perfect, right? Because one of our pillars of experiential living is his relationships and he explains to us his viewpoint on connection.

And we'd go deep on this concept. Uncommon connections, this conversation around uncommon. Connections was pivotal for me. And I'm excited for each of you , to hear his perspective, but also what the alternative is. And then we end our conversation with actually the whole purpose of our show.

He shares his change in perspective when he turned 50 and what that meant. And we'll dive into this. Concept of saying yes to things saying yes to things that may be previously in our life. We, we said no to, or just ignored. I love this conversation. And I'm excited to share it with each of you.

 Tom, thanks so much for joining us and I'm super excited to introduce you to our community today. And that's because there are certain pieces of your life that line up so brilliantly with a really part of our mission here at an experienced growth is building these experiential lives and some of those pillars.

You've done. You've done. Just spot on we, we talk a lot about wealth on here in building wealth. More importantly, it's what we do with that. And I'd love to start our conversation. I came across a term that I had not heard before. And so I'm going to just say you coined it. And it was this idea of compounded generosity.

 Maybe you could share what that means to you and actually why it means something so. 

Thom Singer: [00:03:07] Sure. Well, compounded generosity is a term that I came up with, I don't know, a decade ago. And it was because my wife and I had gone through an experience. Our youngest daughter was born with a pretty serious.

Medical condition. She had to have a really extensive surgery when she was six months old. And to give you the short version, they had to remove all the bones on the top of her skull, leaving just skin over brown. Until the bones could grow back or she would have ended up with an elephant man, like the deformity, her, she would have had a cranio abnormality in the way her skull would have looked.

She would have been teased, et cetera. And it was a pretty risky thing to do. We did a somewhat new surgery. She was only the 13th or 14th kid. Maybe if you will, to have this new type of surgery that they did. And everything turned out great. And so in the long run, she's now almost 20 years old, she goes to an Ivy league college she's super smart.

You would never know by looking at her that she would have had these problems, but we realized we were very fortunate but we're not wealthy. We're not, we don't come from families that have our names on the sides of hospitals. And we wanted to do something to give back. And what we realized is you don't have to be rich to impact.

You don't have to be rich to wait till you're, you know, totally wealthy to start giving back. So at the time I was starting, my business 12, I guess, is 12 years. As a professional speaker and I still was working full time and in a marketing role and we decided we would take just a couple of percentage points.

Every time I was paid to give a speech, we would give a little bit of that money to a fund at the then brand new children's hospital that was opened in our hometown. When Kate was born, we had to travel across the country to have the best doctors and the best facilities. And so we started giving $50 checks, $20 checks, a hundred dollars checks.

And over the course of several years, it's now added up to over $70,000 between the hospital Dell children's hospital in Austin, Texas, where we live. [00:05:00] And we started the same type of fund at Rady children's hospital in San Diego, where Kate was operated on. And we would give along the way, just a little bit of our income.

And had we given a $50 check, nobody would have noticed, but you do that for a decade. And you have some clients who donate and things like that, and it's slowly approaching a six-figure number. All of a sudden that becomes a real way of giving and we did it. We didn't set up a foundation. We just set up an endowment to the foundations that existed at the children's hospital.

So much like compounded interest. We teach young people start saving and investing when you're young and you'll have a lot of money when you retire. It will continue to grow. You'll continue to add to it. I talk about compounded generosity being the same thing, that if you just make it a habit that you're always going to give just a little bit, even when times get tough, maybe you cut back the percentage points and just give smaller amounts.

But if you do it over a lifetime, all of a sudden it's going to be a big thing. 

Chris Suarez: [00:05:59] Yeah, I love that. I'm a dad of two little girls. So when I heard this story about your little girl and the decisions that you had to make I loved I loved how you approached that decision. And maybe I can just ask you that question.

It was a fairly risky surgery, right? So there was risk going in and making the decision to, yes, we're going to have our six month old baby girl have this surgery, the. The alternative was watching her grow up with this abnormality and you and your wife sat down and said I think it might've been your wife actually, that, that sort of forward tripped the decision and how each would play out.

Do you want to walk through that? I thought it was really 

Thom Singer: [00:06:38] powerful. Yeah, we were essentially given two choices and we were diagnosed late. So this decision had to be made really quick. Most kids who have this thing, it's called a sagittal synostosis. It's the bones between the soft spots on the top of your head should be free floating plates.

And they were fused together. So Kate's head, couldn't grow from side to side. It could only grow from front to back. And so it was, and would continue to get worse. A baby's head is pretty small. It quadruples in size or at least doubles in size. I don't remember the. Numbers. So the abnormality that was already present was going to get much worse.

So we could do nothing and raise a kid who would be teased. There'd be a, possibly some brain damage from pressure inside the vault of the head. But more importantly, she would have this elephant man like head thing going on. And it's hard enough to be a kid. You don't want to be teased.

The other option was by six months old, they could remove about half the top of the bones in her skull. And they told us that they should grow back. Now, the part that wasn't really it wasn't really a strong in that was should, it's like, yes, most likely the bones will grow back. Unfortunately they did.

We were given those two choices and my wife and I talked about it and one of the things we came up with. What would 19 year old Kate or I think at the time we thought 16 year old Kate, but she's 19. Now, what would we think? 19 year old Kate would want us to do? Would she look back if she had this deformity and been teased and everything else and say you could have done something and there was a little bit of risk.

It wasn't highly risky, but there was a 10% chance something minor or major could go. And it was just one of those things that we realized that if you were a teenager and you then discovered that, this could have been corrected when I was a baby, she'd never forgive us. And that was our goal as parents is we had to make the decisions that, our kids would want us to make when they were older.

And in this case, we faced a decision that was scary and it, and it was horrific for us. It was probably the worst thing we ever went through. And she had to wear a helmet for six months while the bones grew back and she had to be checked by the doctor. We had to go to San Diego every year until she was about 14 years old.

About 14 or 15, your skull has done growing. And so we had to go every year. Now the upside to that is we had a family vacation to San Diego every single year. So that's the joke. Both of my kids. When the doctor said you don't have to come back anymore. Both of my kids were like, oh no, we want to come to San Diego.

Chris Suarez: [00:09:03] Yeah, I think that I, that speaks to, to the experiences and the culture that you've raised with your kids. I think that decision-making, that you made that rhythm, or even that model, perhaps of the decision-making when I heard it, I thought, wow, like real tough spot to be.

But what a brilliant way to look at that. And I think that's applicable in so many areas of her life as well. What would that 16 year old or that 16 years in the future, what will we think back about this decision? How would we feel? What would we regret potentially or how would someone else feel in our interaction with them?

I thought that was wildly valuable. Now, 

Thom Singer: [00:09:39] compounding that I was going to say the other thing that we always say is that Kate was six months old when she had this surgery. Kate will never remember any of it. But my wife and I will never forget. And that's what drove us to finding a way to give something back.

Chris Suarez: [00:09:55] Yeah. I love that. I love that. So compounding generosity, [00:10:00] obviously it's become a big part of what you've been able to do for others. How do you believe that that concept and that belief has affected Kate and even the rest of your family? 

Thom Singer: [00:10:10] I think, we just have tried to lead by example on it.

And I really believe that, there's a lot of people who think I can't give enough to make a difference. So, you know, they, they don't, but most of the donations in our country and probably the world, we hear a lot about the wealthiest families, in society, we hear a lot about big foundations and the giant donations, but most of the giving takes place from average people who give $25, a hundred dollars 50.

But what I discovered is if you give a little over here a little over there, a little over here, it's great. You can't track it by picking one cause and really being serious about it over a lifetime that can add up and grow to a big thing. So I do think both my kids have this understanding that there's more to life than just you.

We struggled for a few years when I started my own business and went full time and we had a friend who said, well, you're going to stop giving to charity while you're building your base. And it was only a couple little percentage points. And I said, no, every time I give a speech, we're going to write a little check.

And some of our friends were like, well, that's stupid. You shouldn't do that. And my older daughter was like, yeah, why are we doing that? We could use that money for, things. And I just thought was a good thing to do. And now there have been times over the past 12 years where we haven't always given, but we get back on track as soon as we can with that.

And we try, the pandemic the last year. I hadn't written a check in a while, so I just booked a speaking gig. And as soon as I get that, I'll send a check off because now I'm starting to see that light at the end of the tunnel, if you will. But you know, I can't say how it impacts, my, my kids, but they're both really good kids.

They both work hard. They both are getting good educations and one's out of college now and working and, hopefully every little thing we did was just leading by example not just this one. Yeah, 

Chris Suarez: [00:11:55] I think one of the lessons if we believe in compounding any, anything, it means that we need to have a longterm play, right?

Our view has to be the future and not right now. And I think that's a valuable lesson for our community and for human beings. Because it delays gratification potentially. But right now, when you look at the endowment, and even you look at what you've created over a long stretch of time, some people might say, wow, some people write that check every day but it was that incremental growth in impact that I think is incredibly 

Thom Singer: [00:12:25] valuable.

And I think I try to apply that in how I've grown my speaking career and other things that I do in my business. Is, I realized that it's a long, this is a long-term play. If I had just looked at the first year of trying to go and be a professional speaker, I would have quit, but you know, 12 years into it, there've been ups and downs currently.

We've been through a down, but you know, I'm only 55. I figure I've got another 15 years that I can play this game, you know? So it's a long-term play. And I try to do that with the other things that I approach in my life is, the long tail is an important way. 

Chris Suarez: [00:12:58] Yeah, I love that.

Actually. Let's talk about your speaking one of one of your messages that we appreciate here and, or we will when our community learns about it, because one of the key pillars to an experiential life is relationships. You talk about it and again, coined again, the phrase, uncommon connections uncommon connections.

What does that mean? What can we do with that? 

Thom Singer: [00:13:20] So Chris, if you think about this you probably have a LinkedIn account. And most people I talk to, and I say, how many connections do you have on LinkedIn? It's somewhere between hundreds and thousands of connections. But then when I say, how many of those people have you interacted with in the last 10 days, both professionally and personally.

And how many people have you referred business to in the last two weeks? And how many of those people have referred business to you or talk to you up some way in the community. And most people look at me. None or a couple or whatever. So we get very focused on how many followers we have, how many likes links, shares, and followers we have on all these social media platforms.

But the reality is that those people, if you don't have an interactive, engaged relationship where you're looking out for each other and there's, long-term mutually beneficial, success ahead for both of you, then it's just another. Click. It's just another link. And so I think what we've done in our society inadvertently is we've created this world where we have lots of connections.

That mean very little. And so many people use LinkedIn. They use it as a way just to promote their stuff. They want a lot of followers, so more people will see what they post, but they themselves don't go in like, or share or comment on anyone else's stuff. And that's, we've gotten. Push oriented through social media and it's about the followers.

I, I talked to a gentleman who sells marketing services to professional speakers and he was trying to get me on as a client. And I was somebody he wanted to be able to have in his stable of speakers. He. But it wasn't cheap. It was kind of expensive. And I know the business, there's no guarantees you're going to get work.

And so he was guaranteed to make like several thousand dollars a month, but he may never book [00:15:00] me. I was like, eh, and he kept telling me yes, but in the last three months I've added 3000 LinkedIn followers. I was like, so well, if they're not commenting, if they're not engaged. So I started looking at his LinkedIn posts and he had two likes or no likes, or, no comments.

And it's so you have 3000 new followers. I think he had like 10,000 followers in general. That means nothing. And we have to be very cautious to think, wow, this person has so many followers because a lot of the people by their followers on Twitter and stuff like that, they're not even real. And so most connections are just common.

They're just likes links, shares, and followers. It's those uncommon connections where you can have those really exceptional relationships with people who have your back and you have their back. And I teach this stuff and I only have a handful. I probably don't have more than five or six people who I have that type of relationship where I'm referring them.

They're referring me. We're, talking each other up. If I start a new project they talk about it on their social media. And we need to have more of those people, but in order to do it, it takes time. You have to be a giver, you have to be cultivating and you have to have that long-term look.

Chris Suarez: [00:16:06] Yeah. What do you think prevents that? 

Thom Singer: [00:16:08] I think one of the things is we've been seduced by social. We get very up on the dopamine hits of are people following me, are people commenting, hang on me. And so it really becomes how can I say, show off what I do? I mean, how many people do you follow on social media?

And they show a picture of himself sitting next to their fancy car, or if they have the honor to go on a jet and it's true, I've posted those pictures. My friend, Aaron King calls it a braggy post. And I started thinking about it. We all do it. It's the culture of social media. It's what it's about.

But the reality is that's not how you build relationships. You don't build relationships by bragging to people. It's the same problem we have with the idea of the elevator pitch, right? I think it's important to be able to clearly and concisely tell people who you are and what you do well, but the way we teach the elevator pitch in business, networking, people mistaken it that's how they're supposed to lead.

So the idea of the elevator pitch, if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, most people. If you got on an elevator on the 30th floor, how could you clearly and concisely tell people who you were by the time you reached the lobby. But Chris, if we got onto an elevator together and I realized that, you booked speakers for a big event.

And I was like, oh my God, Chris could hire me. And the doors closed on the 30th floor. And I flicked the switch in my back and said, Hey Chris, my name is Tom singer. I speak at conferences. I've been doing it for 12 years, probably over a thousand presentations. Blah-blah-blah just verbal vomit all over.

What would you do, Chris? When we got to the lobby and the doors open I'd run. Number one, answer that I get, and I've asked audiences up to a thousand people. This question, everybody says run never in me, 10 years using this example, no one has ever said, I'd take you to Starbucks to learn more about.

Ever people say, run, get away from you. Roll my eyes, whatever. So the problem is if you lead with yourself and Hey, here's who I am in a quippy little fun elevator pitch of why I'm awesome. It doesn't draw anybody in. So in order to draw them in, you have to make it about the other person, which means instead of starting with your elevator pitch.

And there's a time when you will, you'll get your turn to talk. There's a time. You really should start by asking people questions about who they are, how they got started in the industry, what they're doing, because when people know you care, now they're more interested in you, but that's how you build relationships as you got to make it about the other person.

And the problem is, I don't know, made up statistic seven out of 10 people. You meet, you can invest time in them. You can send them notes, you can try to do it. They're not going to respond. And so people give up, but the meat is in the three out of 10. Who you do put in the time and effort on who come back and want to put some time and effort into you.

And even those people aren't necessarily all going to become your best friends. You're not going to develop the uncommon connection that is so valuable, but you've got to keep trying, we were coming out of the pandemic. Human connection is more important now than it's ever been. And people have been lonely and disconnected.

A lot of people are telling me they feel socially awkward. So investing in people has a really good payoff, but not every person you invest. Is it going to pay off? So you got to just keep going. Yeah. 

Chris Suarez: [00:19:06] Tell him, I think that message is probably and it's been your message for a bit, but it's probably more important right now than it's ever been on topic.

I recently read Dr. Marissa Kings, a new book called social chemistry, and she was talking about how one of the tragedies. Of the pandemic is the social connection. And that on average, I think 35% of our connections have been lost. More so with men than women. She said that research shows that women make connections through conversation and oftentimes men make connections through doing an activity.

And so when doing an activity with people went away they're in 35% of the connections that men had were were lost that we need to rebuild those. That's the basis of human purpose and enjoyment is the connection. So what What have you found to, drive connect?

Like you're the master at that? Like, that's what you do. Like [00:20:00] you get hired to, to help build social connection and eventually, potentially those uncommon connections, what can people do or what do we have to be mindful of other than, like you said, tactically, start by asking questions. 

Thom Singer: [00:20:13] Yeah. I think the first thing is start by being interested in other people.

But the second thing is that I ask people all the time. When is the last time you referred to somebody in your industry or in another industry or just a friend or a neighbor? When's the last time you referred somebody who actually got hired and paid money. And if you don't know the answer to that, Then how can you expect anyone to ever refer you?

And the sad part. And I had this conversation with someone this morning. He said, I heard he, I know him, he's a friend of mine, but he heard me speak. And he said, I refer, I try every week to make a referral to my dentist, to, to anybody, blah blah. And he goes, but I rarely. Get any referrals back.

And he said, I used to do dozens and dozens of them, you know, a year, if not hundreds. And I said have you gotten any referrals in the last couple of years? And he said, yes, that turned into business. And he said, yes. I said, tell me about them. One of them was the biggest piece of business he'd ever had.

And I said isn't that worth it? You know? So what you made a hundred introductions for other people, but one person gave you a gig that turned into, several ongoing referrals and gigs. I have a situation. I never would have made it as a speaker. If I hadn't had one specific person I can track.

It's like patient zero. When you look at an epidemic, I can trace it back to patient zero for a referral. And I was speaking at an event in Austin, Texas. I was not a full-time professional speaker. I was dreaming of it and I was emceeing this event. And something came up where we needed to kill time for 10 minutes in the middle of the program.

And I won't go into the details, but I immediately grabbed the microphone, jumped into the audience and engaged everybody who was in the audience, why something else was taking place on the stage. And afterwards, this gentleman came up to me and said, that was masterful. Do you do this for a living? And I fibbed a little bit and said, yes, And he said, UMC conferences.

And I said I keynote conferences, but I can take this concept of connection and weave it in as the MC. And he goes, my boss should know you. I got his card. I didn't recognize the company name because it was a holding company. But his boss was the editor of CIO magazine. She called me the next day and said, we're supposed to know each other.

And I'm like, oh yeah, She hired me to speak at a conference. And then over the next three years, CIO magazine used to be 19 times as what I call being the conference catalyst, spurring people to network better at the thing. And that spun off something like 25 other pieces of business. So my whole career got launched because that one person in the audience referred me to somebody.

So what's funny about that story is I didn't want to do the event I was hosting. I said no twice. Cause it was unpaid. And I didn't really care. And a friend of mine said, I would really like you to do this favor for me. And so as a favor, I said, yes. And it really launched my whole career. So it's one of those things that you don't know where things are going to come from.

So therefore you've got to say yes to lots of people and be out there just trying to do a good job. And if you do it enough, People want to be around givers. There's enough takers out there in the world. So if you're a giver, if you're helping people, if you're saying yes, when you can people notice it and they want to get in your way.

Chris Suarez: [00:23:26] Yeah, I agree with that. I think there was a valuable lesson is as I think about a few things you've said we have to rhetorically ask ourselves, are we doing this to push? Are we that pusher? Are we just pushing content out? Because we. People to have what we are delivering.

Is there, there is is there a reason or we doing it for them, the purpose of, and the power of the social interaction and the connections that we will make with real human beings through to what our message is like you have clearly passion for human interaction and connection. And your business and speaking career is built on being the catalyst for the connection, which I think w which comes from a really good place.

And it isn't just, how do I push this out? 

Thom Singer: [00:24:14] Yeah. I mean, I'm guilty of pushing things out, just like everybody else. Where the business really comes from is when I do it from a place of really trying to help insert. Yeah. I 

love 

Chris Suarez: [00:24:23] that. Now that has led to actually you host multiple podcasts.

One of the, one of the ones that I've spent some time listening to is your podcast making. At sea level which is which is an awesome plan where it's, by the way. But one of the questions I had, right? Your goal, well, let me ask you this. What's the goal of the podcast? Like how did it become and what is your purpose in, in, in providing those insights?

Thom Singer: [00:24:47] So I started the show seven years ago, we're approaching 700 episodes. I do it twice a week. It was originally called cool things. Entrepreneurs do. And it was a way for me to interview successful business people, because I figured if I [00:25:00] interviewed 50 people, I was going to get inspired. So it was a six month project for me to be able to access entrepreneurs and other business people to get ideas from them.

I, in fact, I, during the pandemic, one of the things I did. Because my business kind of hit the skids cause the live meetings business. I had a personal plan to talk to one smart person every day. And sometimes that was through the podcast. I host sometimes it was just jumping on a zoom call with somebody who I knew and admired.

And I asked for advice, how do I rescue my career? How do I do something else? What do you think I should be doing? And I've talked to now a couple hundred smart people over the last year plus, and most of them didn't have ideas that resonated. Some of them had dumb ideas. Some had no ideas, but I got five or six ideas out of all those conversations that led me to being able to resonate.

My speaking business, as well as doing other things. So when I started the podcast, it was going to be 50 interviews solely for me to get access to people. By the end of the first six months I was starting to get, and it wasn't on this whole light. My podcast theme was not about human connection.

It wasn't about your network and your brand probably should have been had I known seven years ago that podcasting was going to become as big as it is. And had I known it was going to be a spinoff thing. But it was an interview show of smart entrepreneurs, but people heard me. I talked about the fact that I was a speaker at sales meetings or association conferences, and they would call and say, what do you charge?

And we talk and I was spinning off business. So I'm not an idiot. So I kept the podcast going and every year I spun off a couple of MC or keynote speaking gigs. And then a couple of years ago, one of my clients came to me and said, could we pay you to host our podcast? And so now I host three, I just signed a contract for him.

Podcast where I am the paid outside host bringing just my interview skills my energy and my knowledge of how to produce a podcast to organizations that want to have shows. So it came about sort of as an accident to interview entrepreneurs. And now it's still going. So I changed the name to making waves at sea level, the letters C like CEO, CFO.

Last year when I went to work part-time for an executive search firm. So in the pandemic, one of the smart people I talked to said, come work here. And so I do business development for a high-end executive search firm who helps companies find their senior leadership team. And so I changed the name of the podcast to match up with that side of my life because the entrepreneur angle didn't match up with doing the recruiting.

Cause I'm not looking for. The people to fill the jobs I'm looking for the first step is you find the companies who are looking to fill key roles. And so making waves at sea level became the title because it fit in with my career and executive search that is now up and running a year.

Interesting, 

Chris Suarez: [00:27:40] Almost, 700 plus interviews with some pretty bright right. Some pretty bright entrepreneurs and some pretty bright leaders of businesses. Why is why is making waves or shaking things up so important in business, do you think, we've already heard multiple times that you've made some waves or shift things up in your career trajectory or business strategy.

Why? Why do you think that's so important? What lessons could you share with us that maybe you can? So 

Thom Singer: [00:28:04] There's a famous professional speaker, friend of mine, a guy named Jay Baer, and Jay has a saying same is lame. And so if your company is just doing what all the competitors are doing, you're not going to stand out.

You're not going to get ahead. Part of my background. My career in marketing was I spent five years as the director of marketing and business development for two, what are called AmLaw 100 law firms, which are the a hundred largest law firms in the United States. And I worked for two of them as their business development director for the city of Austin and Dallas.

And. What's weird about law firms is if all of their marketing is exactly like everybody else, if one firm puts the managing partners bulldog in their ad, another firm will put the managing partners, Daniel in their ad like, oh, well obviously if a bulldog, was a good, add a Cocker spaniel even better.

And you know, it's like if you've ever taken little kids to play soccer, someone kicks the ball to the left. Both teams run to the left. Someone kicks the ball to the right. Both teams run to the right. That's the way many companies do their marketing and run their business is like, well, everybody does it this way.

So it must be right. Whereas if you watch professionals play soccer, everybody has a different role and people do different things. And some people hold back and some people go forward. Same thing is true in business. If we're doing everything our competitors do. There's not going to be great.

And we've seen this in these tech companies, they compete for talent as much as for as much as for clients when they're competing for talent. One of the things they try to do is create a great culture. So early on companies like Google and Salesforce and others, in the Silicon valley, they were having lunch rooms and foosball tables and Friday parties.

Well, now, if you work, in that type of company, at least prepared. That was just expected it no longer was what stood out. That just became, if everybody does what everybody does, it becomes the norm. So I think you got to shake things up. You've got to make a little bit of waves or you're just going to be same as late.

Chris Suarez: [00:29:54] That's a valuable lesson. One that I wasn't expecting today from you, but that's awesome. Yeah. [00:30:00] What do you think shows up when you're different? It's the risks right there, I think what prevents us from doing that is, is being scared to maybe go out outside of your lane or the lane within the industry.

What are the risks? 

Thom Singer: [00:30:12] Well, I mean, if you're two different people don't understand what you do. So there, there is a fine line, I think that, as a professional speaker, if I dressed up as a clown and blue bubble, my, my law firm and accounting and other professional services clients probably would not hire me.

So yeah. I wear a suit or at least a blazer when I go and speak to the types of businesses I speak to associations. And, but we've gotten into a more casual world. And so some people, some speakers show up in jeans and a t-shirt. Well, one of the things I do is I ask every client, how do you want me dressed?

And I have three different levels of how they can, it's their stage. I'll show up how they want. And what's interesting is a lot of them go, you'll really wear a suit and I'm like, yeah. And they go, our CEO loves it when speakers wear suits. But so many don't these days, I'm like, it's your a band I'll wear whatever you want.

So you want to be different, but you also need to stay within the realm of what your client needs to have. So I think there's a fine line in that. And yet, if you don't do something a little different, if you don't brand yourself because I speak at conferences around this whole concept of human connect, One of the things I do that I sort of invented 14 years ago, 12 years ago that now other people, some people do, but I'd never seen anyone else do it.

I'd seen other people talk about networking and human skills. But the thing I did is I came out and said, okay, halfway through my keynote. I go, I have an idea. Let's make this conference a human laboratory for the next three days. So I wanted to be in that first position. And I would set the tone for the whole conference and a client gave me a nickname, the conference capital.

And so I would market myself to people who plan meetings saying if you want human connection to be good, if you want people to have the skills at your cocktail party to leave their coworkers and go talk to other people, you need to hire me. And I would, I had marketing material that says, does your conference have a catalyst?

So it wasn't so different that I was in a clown suit blowing bubbles, but I was giving them tools, not just to take back to the office, but to use at the happy hour that happened right after the opening. So that was just a little different. And so if you can have a little differentiation, now they remember that I still get business from people who Google the conference catalyst because that's all they remember.

They don't remember my name, but they remember that because it was a tad bit different. So I think it's finding that line between having something unique. It's a little different that stands out, that people can talk about that people can remember and, just being the same as everybody. 

Chris Suarez: [00:32:36] I also here within your conversation, you are very true north.

So although you have different verticals of your business and what you're doing with with a company, part-time and what you're doing with your speaking business and career, and what you're doing with your podcast, they do go to north. They do all lead to. This mission of the connection and creating uncommon connection and you create a message around, for instance, right?

I will not leave here without thinking of you as the conference catalyst and for many of our listeners, right? We are in spaces that we build businesses off conferences and. That's, we will remember that if we need that and listen, we all do like we conferences are for the purpose of if we didn't need social interaction, we'd stick on zoom for the next 3, 4, 5, 7 years in the future.

We think, Hey, this is great, but nobody thinks this is great. Everybody is so ready to get back in, in face-to-face and around people, because. That the connection is so necessary. I think we're going to need to learn it. Like your skills will become more important because we need to relearn how to do it 

Thom Singer: [00:33:41] From your lips to God's ears.

Yes, absolutely. But I actually do agree that I think we've proven the last 16 months or so that we can deliver content very well. Over a virtual platform. And that is awesome that we can do that. And there will be pieces of virtual conferences and some hybrid that will go on forever. That will be tied back to the advances we made in virtual during the pandemic.

However, the human connection side, while some there's a few outliers. There are people who say no, Tom, I've made more contacts doing online, networking than I ever did in person. So there are. But most people agree that shared human experience that happens when you're having that serendipitous hallway conversation or that chat in the bar after, the cocktail party is over and you meet that one person.

It's like, Ooh, That was worth your entire, that one conversation was worth all the money and time you spent to go to the conference that doesn't happen in a five minute assigned to zoom breakout room where all of a sudden you're now you're in with somebody else. So I really do believe that experience matters.

And we have to, you can't plan an event and leave the networking as a second tier priority anymore. Or you're going to have second tier results. And if you have second tier networking, who's going to come. They'll just buy. Yeah, 

Chris Suarez: [00:34:55] I think one of the words you just used validates the purpose of what you do [00:35:00] is you are right that some people would argue that the efficiency of digital has led to more contacts, but I would argue that it has not led to more connection.

So the contact list may be long, but the connection. It happens face to face. And I think a lot of industries right now, many that we speak to in our community, fear that digital or tech is removing them from the industry. And many of our men are many are our people are in the real estate industry.

The fact is like tech and digital absolutely can add contacts and but it's the human relationship that drives connection. I have one more question for you. I came across something while I was learning about you after we got introduced. And it said that and I'm assuming it's okay for me to share that that you turned 50 recently, I'll say recently, and then you can add.

Quantify what recent means, but you turn 50 and I'm here within our community. We care greatly about living experientially. It's the, that's the purpose and mission of the work that we're doing. Making sure that we realize that we can build big businesses while. Building big experiential lives and the age mattered to you.

And you started to do or experience things that perhaps you never have. What happened at 50 and what decisions did you make and what lessons have you learned that you can share with our 

Thom Singer: [00:36:19] committee? So Chris, a couple things. This happened five years ago, I just turned 55. So I'm now five years into this grand experience of exp experiment of experiences.

And I will tell you that it's more true now than it was. I made a declaration on my 50th birthday that I was going to make age 50 to 75, the best years of my life. Now I wasn't scared. I had a lot of friends I grew up with who were freaking out when they were getting close to turning 50. It didn't even feel it.

When the ARP membership came at 50, I was like, oh, look at that. I get a, a discount on movies or whatever. And part of that reason was, is I had older parents. So when I was born, my dad, my mom was 40, but my dad was 52 years old. And my dad was a pretty pragmatic guy. He raised me saying. You know, having an older dad, I could die when you're in high school or college, which by the way, that's just a sad thing to tell the kid.

But he was really just, he wanted to prep me for what life was all about. And my mom ended up dying when I was 18 and my dad said, wow, I'm so sorry. She was too young that shouldn't have had. And he goes, I don't know how long I'll be around, but I'm here for you. He was very cool. He was a good dad, a really good dad, but he was 70 when I was 18 and he just started living after about two years of really mourning.

He and my mom had a good relationship. They'd been married when I was born 15 years, they had three teenagers. I was that surprise kid that came along, you know, what a surprise that's an accident that worked out okay. Because they like me, but I don't even remember my dad until he's almost 60.

Right? I mean, if your first memories are, when you're four or five years old, puts my dad at like 57, 58. It's true. He was super active and he was widowed at 70. And at about 72, he just decided he made a proclamation that he could easily live another 10 years. He didn't want to be sad every day. And so he just started saying yes to things in his life.

He started going out, he started dating, started traveling. He started doing all kinds of things and he ended up living until he was 99 years old. Wow. So when I turned 50, he'd been gone just a couple of years. And my thought was he made this proclamation at 70. Why wait? So I decided I'm going to make age 50 to 75, the best years of my life.

And I got pushed back on too. People said, Tom, you've had a really good life. What's wrong. And I said nothing, but I'm going to just have a better life. And the other thing is people said your dad lived to be almost a hundred. What about age? 75 to a hundred. And I said, I'll cross that bridge. When I get to it, I looked at 50 to 75 as this unique time.

All studies show that's the biggest earning potential that people have. The last 10 or 15 years, we've been constantly bombarded with gurus and experts who talk about the millennials or gen Z and how the whole world is about them and everything's changing. But I think companies need to pay attention.

To their employees and how they hire employees from that age, 50 to 70 or 75 age range, because that's the most productive and the best, like all the studies show for entrepreneurs, it's like five times more successful for an entrepreneur over 50 than someone who's 25. The odds of failing are much less if you're older.

And so I started looking at this and I started saying, what didn't I do in my life? And there were a lot of things I discovered I didn't say yes to things. If I thought I would suck it. So in my personal life and my career, I personally steered away from anything that scared me. I had a really successful career and I had a good life, but I said no to a lot of things.

So I decided from now on, I'm going to just, my motto became try new things. And I have a little list here of some things. I started, some things worked out and I kept with it, some didn't, but I took up running. I had never been an athlete. I was 30 pounds over. And [00:40:00] by the time I was 50 and six months, I ran a half marathon and I'd lost 30 pounds.

Wow. And I still run to this day pandemic. I put 10 pounds on, but I had kept them off for four years. And I'm yeah, take them off again. Now that we're on the other side of the pandemic, I'm super scared of Heights. So one of the first things I did, I was in Las Vegas. I did that jump at the stratosphere hotel where you jump off building on the hundred and eighth floor.

I understand the expression. I was so scared. I almost pooped my pants. Totally get it. Yeah. Not that close. And then I went zip lining in Costa Rica, which I never would have done because the Heights really would've bothered me. I took surfing lessons. Didn't like surfing, didn't ever surf again, but I tried it.

That's what I tell everybody is trying new things doesn't mean you have to do it forever. You go out and you try it. If, if you feel like you almost drowned and you got hit in the head with a surf board, don't do it again. But at least I tried it. I took up playing chess. Chess always seemed interesting, but it seemed complicated and hard.

And then I realized you'd suck at it for years before you'd be any good. I'm a couple of years into playing chess. I have a son-in-law who his, I mean, he's not a grand master, but he's on his way to that. He's a math, he's a mathematical genius. He's one of the smartest 26 year old mathematicians in the world.

And he loves playing chess. He loves the strategy behind chess and he can beat me in six moves. However, I keep playing. I keep learning. I've got someone in my family who can teach me, plus I want to be able to share that with my son-in-law, because he's a great guy. We don't have a lot in common because he's a mathematician.

He works, he, he's a quantitative researcher for a hedge fund. I tell silly stories for a living and help companies find new executives. So we're not on the same intellectual level per se, but we have this in common and he's very patient teaching me. I started meditating every day for the last two years, 20 minutes a day, every day.

If I hadn't started this before the pandemic, when my business cratered, I would have cried every day started studying Daoism because Eastern religion always interested me. So now I'm, I hired somebody to, I started doing online classes on what is Taoism about the list is really long, but I'll leave you with this one, couple of years ago, three years ago, I was in New York and I called a friend of mine.

Who's a professional speaker and a professional. And I said, let's go out for a drink. And he said, oh, I'm going to open mic night, come with me. And I said, I would love to watch you work on new material. And he said, that's not what I'm inviting you to do. And I was 52 years old at the time. I said, there is no way I'm going to write a five minute set and go to a comedy club in New York and do an open mic night.

And he said to me, aren't you the guy who teaches try new things. And I was like, dammit, I ain't. So I wrote a five minute set. I went with him, my name was drawn. I did the five minute set at a comedy club in Greenwich village. And I'll be honest. It wasn't great. Had Jerry Seinfeld been there. He would not have been worried about job security because I had done this, but it pushed me way out of my comfort zone.

And so I came back and I declared I'm going to do a hundred open mic nights in the next two years. And so once a week, whether I was traveling or I was home in Austin, I did an open mic night every week. And when the pandemic shut everything down, I was at 95, but Mike nights, I took a year off because being here COVID safe.

I didn't think being at a comedy club, even though Austin and Texas bars were open in the fall before the vaccine, I didn't think hanging out with a bunch of millennials who were licking them. Microphone was like my best safety. I didn't think that was my best health. But once the pandemic ended, I went and I finished up those last five and now I've done 10 more.

I do two open mic nights a week now. And it has made me a better speaker. It's made me a more playful in everything that I do. I'm not that great at comedy. I have been invited to be in five shows where I've had like a 10 minute set, but I'm not great. But by the time I've done like 600 of them, I'll probably be pretty good.

So I'm keeping up with this longevity of that. And I'm now on the goal to do a hundred open mic nights in the next year, which means twice a week. Give or take a little bit and then, you know, see where it takes me. And, if I got good enough, what I want to go be at, do professional comedy.

Sure. But that's not what my goal is. My goal is what can I learn from doing this and all these other things that I'm trying over 50 that I never tried before. My regret is I didn't take you up this idea of trying new things when I was 19. 

Chris Suarez: [00:44:11] You know, Tom it's, there's a message that's woven from the beginning of our conversation to right now.

And whether it's really difficult decisions you made. With your daughter, whether it's your perspective on what connection relationship is, whether it's how you look at the next phase, the current phase of your life, if you play the long game, right? Yeah. You've used that expression. You use the word longevity you use.

Like you, you are a future interest in that you see yourself today and you see where you want to be or where you could be. And you're not afraid. Of saying yes today and if it leads to something awesome, if it doesn't awesome, like it's the experience and the journey. But it's playing a long game that is, has led you to a successful career.

And it's an [00:45:00] incredible message for our community. Where can we find you? If someone wants to bring you in as. As a catalyst for their conference where do we go? And I'll make sure we have  your information in the show notes 

Thom Singer: [00:45:11] as well. So the simplest place is just my website.

It's sort of the hub for most of the things I do. Not quite everything, but it's Tom singer.com. That's T H O M S I N G E r.com. And then I'm on all the social media is just at Tom singer, T H O M S I N G E R. So you find me most of those. 

Chris Suarez: [00:45:28] Awesome. Well, we appreciate your time today. We appreciate what you shared.

Lots of lessons, right? Life lessons, for sure. Business lessons, for sure. Future lessons for all of us. Just a great gratitude for you spending some time with our community and look forward to getting off the screen and meeting in person here real soon.